About N. B. Forrest High School

here’s professor steven stoll’s reasoning, as he just e-mailed to flog, for fighting to change the name of nathan b. forrest high school to “eartha m.m. white high school”:

“Ms. White is a Jacksonville-born and -educated person. She taught at Stanton H.S. for a number of years. She founded several businesses and non-profits in Jax. Eleanor Roosevelt and Booker T. Washington came to Jax to meet her. She is one of the few women involved in organizing the 1963 march on Washington. In 1970, Nixon honored her as a philanthropist in a ceremony at the White House.

“Eartha M.M. White is a Jacksonvillian worthy of the honor of having a school named after her, and she is someone that any child attending that school could be proud of. Her motto would make a great school motto, too: “Do all the good you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, for all the people you can, while you can.”

(in a comment here, it’s worth noting, flog reader eric cravey says white ripped off the above slogan from united methodist church co-founder rev. john wesley.)

rhetorical follow-up question: does white fit the duval county school board’s criteria for naming schools better than forrest does?

with respect to the push to change the name of jacksonville’s forrest high school, here’s an excerpt from the duval county school board’s “policy file FF: naming facilities,” which was adopted in 1997:

“the criteria for selection of a person’s name for a school or school facility shall include, but not be limited to, the following. the person shall be:

(a) recognized for his/her outstanding contributions or service to the duval county educational system for a period of not less than ten (10) years.

(b) of good moral character.”

does nathan b. forrest fit these criteria? even IF he was the visionary general (which seems to be agreed upon) and non-racist (which doesn’t) that some are claiming he was, it’s obvious forrest did not make “outstanding contributions” to the duval county educational system. (i know, i know, the same could be argued for the namesakes of other local schools. but they’re not as blatantly offensive to a significant segment of the population.)

because his 180-second speech at last week’s school board meeting received little attention, professor steven stoll will now push for the name change through the board’s official mechanism for doing so. he and his supporters will attend a school advisory council meeting at forrest high (monday, jan. 8, 6 p.m.), where he’ll (re-)introduce his cause — and possibly inspire a riot from “heritage”-loving westsiders. after that, he and his sociology students will conduct research on forrest, gather community input, etc., and present their findings to the school board in the spring. if things go as planned, the board will then vote on the name change.

“there are people on the board and elsewhere who want to make this change,” stoll recently told flog. “i intend to follow through.”

didn’t want this comment on the first post about forrest high school to get buried. from mr. billy bearden; enjoy.

“Y’all,

Please stop. You folks sound like some intelligent individuals, but to just repeat the hysteria that Steven Stoll is shouting makes y’all look, well, in need of more high schoolin’.

Lt General Nathan Bedford Forrest was not connected to Florida by birth, nor did he ever set foot on Sunshine State soil. But then neither did Martin Luther King Jr, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, George Washington, or the Lord our God, but each has some marker, memorial, plaque, building, or street named after them. That was a pretty lame argument.

His connection to Florida was he was a soldier in the same army that Floridians gave their lives in. His skill and genius as a Cavalry leader is world known, and still studied today. Why not name your sports teams after a commander that never lost a battle in which he was personally in charge of?

That silly nonsense about Forrest founding the Klan. 15 seconds on the internet or 15 minutes in the library will show how wrong and stupid that statement is.

The Klan was founded by 6 former Confederate Officers in Dec 1865 in Pulaski Tenn: none of whom were Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Forrest’s name was used without his knowlege for some recruiting, but in a newspaper interview in 1868, he declared not only was he not a member, but that when the members went and terrorized innocents, they were shot dead. Forrest not only used his celebrity to call for the Klan to disband, but was cleared of any involvement in or wrongdoing by the Klan by the 1871 US Congressional Investigations chaired by his most hated enemy, Lt General WT Sherman. Hitler High School indeed.

Oh, and FYI, Sherman’s bunch also cleared Lt General Nathan Bedford Forrest of any so called “massacre” at Ft Pillow. Besides, the US own Official Records of the War of the Rebellion have reports from the US troops & USCT (US Colored Troops - the Union segregated their army, the Confederates did not) stating they themselves refused to surrender and asked for no quarter.

You seem to think that Forrest’s forces killing a enemy detachment in a military garrison who refused to surrender a massacre, but are fine with Sherman’s shelling of cities and killing hundreds of innocent women and children (check out Luckie Street in Atlanta) and the kidnapping of thousands of women and children from Georgia. Hitler High School indeed.

After the war, Forrest did all he could to be an upstanding and visionary citizen. Read his speech to the Jubilee of Pole Bearers. Ask why Forrest gave paying jobs to blacks on his railroad, and blacks sought him out for protection and advice. Ask why over 3,000 blacks attended Lt General Forrest’s funeral.

Simply go ask Florida SCV’s black member Nelson Winbush, who’s ancestor (black) rode with and fought under Forrest. Hitler High School indeed.

Stoll and his Stooges on a stick are stupid. They have only emotional hype on their side. Stoll is shooting for his 15 minutes of fame.”

in 1958, the duval county school board named a westside high school after the founder of the ku klux klan, a man who never lived in jacksonville and had no background in education. at tonight’s school board meeting, as he’d planned, local professor steven stoll asked the board to change the name of nathan b. forrest high.

small, bespectacled and generally very professor-like, stoll laid out his case during the public address portion of the meeting. detailing forrest’s slave ownership and war crimes, he asked the board to “correct the injustice” of naming a local school after the confederate general, an act that had been “allowed to fester” for nearly 50 years.

cell phones chirped and babies cooed. most of the board members looked downward, avoiding eye contact with the speaker. some had heard this before.

his tone becoming increasingly urgent as his allotted three minutes ran up, stoll was cut off mid-sentence.

and that was it. stoll was expecting students from his sociology class to back him up at the meeting. only two showed up, and neither spoke. he’d also been distributing fliers to urge local residents to push for the name change, but that effort seemed mostly in vain as well.

“most of jacksonville doesn’t care about racism,” stoll concluded after addressing the board, “and that’s why we have so much.”

… is probably a worse name than nathan b. forrest high, the westside jacksonville school named after the confederate general and first “grand wizard” (ha!) of the ku klux klan.

and at least forrest has strong ties to the area. born in jacksonville in 1821, he was a community activist who enjoyed morning swims in the sparkling st. johns river.

oops — that’s right — nathan forrest wasn’t from jacksonville! wasn’t born here, never lived here, didn’t have anything to do with the place! (no background in education, either!)

forrest has a high school named after him in chapel hill, tennessee — his hometown. but why the hell did the duval county school board name a local segregated white school after forrest in 1958, four years after brown v. board of education? those weren’t the most progressive times, but geez.

stranger still is that the name has stuck — tradition, of course, being the reason.

as a jacksonville city councilmember in the ’90s, local attorney howard dale pushed for changing the name. he was obviously unsuccessful.

next tuesday, however, the school board will once again be asked to change the name of the school — this time, by local sociology professor steven l. stoll and a group of his students. stoll says it’s wrong to continue to honor the legacy of a man who massacred black union soldiers and founded the nation’s most notorious white-supremacy group. contemporary germany, for instance, does not allow its citizens to honor the atrocities that took place there, he says, even in the name of tradition or history.

you have to wonder what kind of effect, conscious or subconscious, the name of forrest high has on its student body. does it actively promote intolerance or even blatant racism, or is it a harmless moniker that’s not worth fooling with? does the local school board have more important things to deal with?

Last night, as you may have heard, Forrest High School’s Advisory Council voted to recommend changing the school’s name in light of its namesake’s involvement in the KKK (among other things).

The issue now goes before the School Board, which will make the final call. Should be interesting.

On the sign-in sheet at the meeting, Flog is told, each attendee was asked to write in his or her race. Leslie Goller is “human,” apparently.

The latest on the Forrest High name change …

Dear Duval County School Board Member:

On Friday, statistician Matt Mitchell of FCCJ finally decoded the reports from Tim Ballentine’s office and calculated that the surveys conducted from the Forrest SAC showed a 7 vote margin of voting for the affirmative in changing the name of the school. When this number was added to the surveys taken by the FCCJ Sociology students at 21 Jacksonville Public Libraries and of City and County officials, the following is the final, accurate calculation of the data:

Yes, change the name
Forrest = 1984
FCCJ =1265
Total = 3,249

No, leave the name
Forrest = 1977
FCCJ = 435
Total = 2,412

From a vote of 5,661, the people of Duval County voted by a margin of 837 votes, 26% to change the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest High School.

Of the 1,976 who offered a NEW name for this school, here are the votes for the following names:

Bennett 141
Firestone 402
Forest 459
Singleton 132
Speicher 268
White 401
Other 173

I assume that the Forrest Advisory Council will abide by the wishes of the community and ask the Board to change the name of this school for the 2007/8 School year. If they do not, I hope that the board will honor the wishes of the community surveyed and make this change.

Sincerely,

Steven Stoll

It’s been a while since we checked in on the debate over whether to change the name of Forrest High. Here’s an update, by way of part of a recent letter from professor Steven Stoll to the Forrest High School Advisory Council.

My students with your principal completed the survey of 5,274 Duval County citizens. The results were calculated by Statistics Professor Matt Mitchell to be 2,568 (48%) for the name change and 2,706 (50%) opposing the name change, a 138 vote margin of victory for those who wish to keep the Forrest name. 1.8% of those completing the survey had no opinion. If the name was to be changed, the community voted for the following names to be considered: FOREST- 459, FIRESTONE – 402, WHITE – 401, SPEICHER – 268, BENNETT – 141, SINGLETON – 132, OTHER – 173.

The survey was by no means a scientifically conducted poll. We did not have the time or the money to have done that. With time and funding, we could have done a complete polling of Duval County concerning this matter.

It is important, however, to note that the surveys provided from Forrest High and its geographical community were about 70% in favor of keeping the name, while 75% of the survey’s taken from all other areas of Duval county were favorable to the name change. It also must be noted, that my students stopped the survey as directed and agreed to in advance on February 28th. Tim Ballentine of the School Board submitted an additional 400 surveys from Forrest after that agreed upon date, most of which were negative as to the change. Had my students been able to collect another 200 or so surveys beyond the February 28th cutoff date, the vote would certainly have been for the change of the name.

It is also important to note that Ms. Kirkpatrick provided the 1871 congressional record for her students to read. This record exonerated Forrest and all other Confederate criminals in favor of moving on. She provided no other view of the historical Forrest for her students to read. As you know, the survey itself was not allowed to point out the history of Forrest, so many who completed the survey had no knowledge of who Forrest REALLY was.

Finally, whether the majority favor continuing to honor the monster, Forrest or not, the SAC and the School Board can choose to do the RIGHT thing and correct this 50 year indignity to racial justice in our community. The Supreme Court founded 9 to 0 in the Brown vs. Board case in 1954 when the vast majority of Americans were against integration of the races. Our constitution protects us from tyranny of the majority and allows our enlightened leaders to do the right thing.

I believe that the superintendent of the school board and perhaps members of that Board wanted our survey to come out with a majority for change because they are embarrassed by the honor of Nathan Bedford Forrest and want to change the name but lack the political courage to do so.

Flog is all for the name change, but “Tyranny of the majority”? “[O]ur enlightened leaders”? Wha?

From an e-mail to Flog by Charles E. Dixon III:

Here is a compromise for the name of the high school.

Another Nathan Bedford Forrest was a war hero and aviator in WWII.

Yes, he is the grandson of the infamous general, but he served his country honorably.

This Nathan Bedford Forrest graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1928. He served in the Army Air Corps. He was the commanding general of the 8th Air Force (museum adjacent to I-95 in Savannah – you can see it from the highway), at the time of his death. He was killed in action 13 June 1943 when his plane was shot down over Germany during one of the hundreds of dangerous daylight missions Americans flew over Germany.

Also, the current Superintendent of the United States Military Academy, LTG Hagenbeck, is a Forrest High School graduate. LTG Hagenbeck commanded the 10th Mountain Division in Afghanistan prior to his appointment to lead the Nation’s Military Academy.

This would be a great opportunity to link the success of one of Forrest High school’s graduates with another graduate of West Point. Forrest High School has an excellent JROTC program and this type of linkage will further tie Forrest High School to Academic Excellence (like that at the Academy) and to the service that many of its graduates have given this nation. A recent example of this service would be Specialist William J. Rechenmacher, who was laid to rest here in Jacksonville this past weekend. Specialist Rechenmacher was a member of the Navy JROTC at Forrest High School.

Then, of course, any association with the name of any of the fine men and women that have served this great country may offend some regardless!

Looks like professor S.L. Stoll and the School Board reached a compromise (sort of) on the language of the survey that will be used to gauge local interest in changing the name of Forrest High School.

Here’s the new, official survey:

Survey of Community Opinion Concerning: Nathan B. Forrest High School

Read the statements below. Put a Y (yes) by each statement that you agree with or an N (no) next to each statement you do not agree with.

1.) I am familiar with the controversy surrounding the name of Nathan Bedford Forrest High School. __

2.) Should the name of Nathan B. Forrest High School be changed? __

If you answered “yes” to question #2:

3.) Which of the following names recommended by community members do you consider most appropriate? Place a checkmark in front of the answer which you desire.

__ a. Charles Bennett High School (Mr. Bennett was a former congressman)

__ b. Firestone High School (The school is located on Firestone Blvd.)

__ c. Forest High School (Dropping the association with Nathan Bedford Forrest and associating with a forest)

__ d. Mary Singleton High School (Ms. Singleton was a local political leader)

__ e. Scott Speicher High School (Mr. Speicher was a Forrest High School graduate and is the only military person listed as MIA in the 1991 Gulf War)

__ f. Eartha M.M. White High School (Ms. White was a local educator, philanthropist and civil rights leader)

__ g. Other: ______________________________

Comments:________________________________

YOUR ZIP CODE: ____ Male: _____ Female: _______
YOUR NAME (optional): _________
YOUR ETHNICITY (optional): ______

Please Mark One: I AM
__ A Student
__ A Parent
__ An Alumnus
__ A Community Member
__ A Civic Organization or Governmental Officer

Please complete and return this form, NO LATER THAN FEBRUARY 28, 2007 to:

Steven L. Stoll, Adjunct Professor
Liberal Arts Department
Florida Community College at Jacksonville
101 West State Street
Jacksonville, FL 32202
Fax: (904) 632-3095

Let’s not even discuss the “Please Mark One” section.

If you’re interested in weighing in on the possible name change, it’s presumably OK to copy the survey from here and send it in. Apologies for the poor formatting.

And tonight (Monday), there’s another meeting on the subject. This time the regional Student Advisory Council will discuss the issue, at 6 p.m. at Cedar Hills Elementary School. Flog won’t be able to make it, so for those who do attend, feel free to post any shamelessly biased coverage of the meeting in the comments section below.

Here’s the latest on the movement to rename Jacksonville’s Forrest High School: S.L. Stoll, the local adjunct professor who’s leading the push to change the name, is pissed about the content of the survey the Student Advisory Committee will use to gauge the community’s interest in the matter.

Here’s the school system’s version of the survey:

1. Should the name of Nathan B. Forrest High School be changed?
Yes___ No___

2. If you answered “Yes” to Question Number 1, which of the following names recommended by community members do you consider most appropriate?
a. Charles Bennett High School
b. Firestone High School
c. Forest High School
d. Mary Singleton High School
e. Scott Speicher High School
f. Eartha M. M. White High School
g. Other: ____

Stoll says the SAC and Duval County School Board are using this piece-of-crap of a survey to make it appear they’re doing what was requested of them (gauge community interest) while ensuring the Forrest name will NOT be changed.

The survey should include background on Forrest, the 1958 decision to name the school after him, and the candidates for the new name, says Stoll. Here’s the survey Stoll likes — the one he and his sociology students are using to feel out local residents:

Jacksonville Fairness and Social Justice Survey

Read the statements below. Put a Y (yes) by each statement that you believe. Put an N (no) next to each statement that you do not believe.

1.) Everyone should have an equal chance to be successful. _____
2.) Our schools should help children to be successful. _______
3.) People should be active participants in government. _____
4.) People are better off when they are treated fairly. _____
5.) In a just society, all people would receive equal treatment. ____
6.) Schools should be named for people who stand for American values.______
7.) Racism and intolerance are wrong in America. _____
8.) Forrest High School, named for a slave owner, civil war criminal and first Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan should have its name changed to a more worthy person from our community. _____
9.) Navy pilot Scott Speicher or philanthropist and civil rights worker Eartha White would be more worthy people to honor by having a high school named for them. _____
10.) Jacksonville is a modern, progressive city emerging as a technology center and should do whatever it can to eliminate social injustice. _____

Sure, the first survey is a little lacking in background info, but maybe that’s the point — participants should do their own research AND KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY’RE AGREEING WITH before signing anything.

Stoll’s survey, on the other hand, is just a wee bit on the slippery-slope-y side, which will detract from the weight the results of the survey are given.

“Forest High School” instead of “Forrest High School”? Seriously?

because flog’s inbox is absolutely overflowing with mail from readers demanding coverage of monday’s meeting at/on forrest high, here goes.

out of the 50 or so people who attended, about three-quarters expressed support of changing the name of forrest high school. five or six people — including larry, the southern gentleman and ‘68 forrest grad talking in the photo — spoke against the idea. (two other people in the picture opposed the change — try to guess who.)

forrest high’s student advisory council will now begin to survey residents and alumni on whether they support changing the name.

for people who are on the fence on this issue, it’s going to come down to really figuring out who the hell this guy was. if you’ve been following the comments on flog (billy bearden did not attend the meeting, by the way — steve stoll told me he lives in mississippi), you know there’s at least a little debate over whether forrest was a KKK grand wizard who massacred black soldiers who’d surrendered, or a fabulous cavalry general who, deep down, really liked his slaves.

the thing is, it’s hard to gauge the size of the camp that supports the latter position. are these people as few and far between as, say, holocaust deniers? stoll thinks so. he says their number is small, but because they all raise hell every time the issue comes up, it seems like their views are more popular than they really are.

one thing’s for sure: PROFESSOR stoll isn’t helping the cause by, when trying to prove who history holds that forrest was, waving a printout of a wikipedia article on forrest and saying, “IT SAYS IT RIGHT HERE!”

also at the meeting, stoll, who originally lobbied for changing the name to “eartha m.m. white high,” said “103rd street high” would be better than forrest high.

someone else suggested “o.j. simpson high,” but then said, “no, that would be ridiculous.” wtf?

then someone else said “scott speicher high” (after the “missing/captured” operation desert storm navy pilot). apparently a number of people around town, even types who don’t seem offended by the current name, are starting to push for this.

after the meeting, stoll told me that wouldn’t work because speicher isn’t technically dead.

103rd street high it is.

the latest bit of drama in the battle over the name of forrest high school unfolds tonight. steve stoll and friends will make their pitch — and likely be met with opposition (and/or a cross-burning) — at the student advisory council meeting at 6 p.m. at the school.

is anyone going? are you tired of hearing about this?

(god i hope i get to meet Billy Bearden!!!)

Steve Stoll, the guy who’s pushing the Duval County School Board to change the name of Forrest High School, received this letter of support from the Montgomery, Ala.-based southern poverty law center yesterday. that’s Mark Potok, the letter writer, at the right, looking a bit discouraged.

Although it is certainly true that Nathan Bedford Forrest was a remarkable cavalry general, it is clear to virtually all serious historians that Forrest was also a deeply racist and extremely brutal leader. For years before the Civil War, Forrest was the owner of a major slave yard in Memphis, a man who became rich trafficking in human flesh and earned a frightening reputation for his brutality as a slave master and hunter of fugitive slaves. A recent and acclaimed scholarly book, “River Run Red: The Fort Pillow Massacre in the American Civil War” by Andrew Ward, concludes that Forrest presided over the 1864 massacre of black soldiers and their white officers at Fort Pillow, Tenn., even though the book’s author began his research assuming that the charges against Forrest were exaggerated.

After the war, Forrest became the first leader of the Ku Klux Klan, heading up what can only be described as the most effective terrorist campaign in U.S. history — the successful effort to end Radical Reconstruction and impose Jim Crow “color codes” that once again disenfranchised blacks in the South. Forrest’s defenders have claimed that he disbanded the Klan after learning of its violence, but that is untrue; in fact, Forrest shut down the Klan after its work was done.

Today, the proponents of a radical movement known to scholars as the neo-Confederate movement have adopted Forrest as their primary hero, displacing Robert E. Lee as what is seen as the quintessential great white Southerner. This shift — from the gentlemanly Lee to the brutal Forrest — says much about the radicalism of certain hate groups, like the League of the South, that seek to rewrite history to serve their own racist agenda.

Mark Potok
Director, Intelligence Project
Editor, Intelligence Report
Southern Poverty Law Center
Montgomery, Alabama

the splc’s support of Stoll's campaign won’t win over any confederate apologists. it probably only solidifies their contempt of the proposal. but the point is that Stoll's push, like it or not, is gaining support — this time from one of the country’s most respected (and reviled) civil rights groups.

by the way, did anyone see the times-union’s “face-off” or whatever between Stoll, explaining why he thinks the name should be changed, and A WRITER WHO IS DEAD, arguing that the name’s not so bad? couldn’t they find someone who is say, alive, to debate Stoll, instead of digging up an article written eight years ago? some people with actual heartbeats wrote in to defend the name after the columns were printed, but geez.